MISSION: Starting “With, In and For” the world

I rarely do this.

Recently, someone posted a comment in which he wondered how we might balance my “Culture Pub” perspectives with the truths that Jesus and the Church embrace. We would not want to denigrate the church while seeking to call people to faith in Jesus.

So true, I thought. I responded with a comment that was longer than the post.

I suggested that God may in fact be speaking to those outside the church through people who are also outside the church.

He suggested that “It is not the words of poets and songwriters that offer spirit and life, it is the words of Jesus Christ.”

Again, I agreed. But my comment and post, I felt, reached farther than that.

Here’s my reply with enhancements and edits for the purpose of this post. (Click this link to read the complete original post and comments, “Vox Culture Pubs™: Three Essential Questions“.) Below the reply here, I’ve placed some processing questions for you and for your small groups or teams.

[I am truly] sorry. I didn’t mean to denigrate your church (or “the church”). Truly.
Having said that… I differ — in some way — with almost every word in your first comment.

That’s why your thoughts are hugely welcome here.

[As an example], let’s take your comment: “It is not the words of poets and songwriters that offer spirit and life, it is the words of Jesus Christ.”

At first, I just thought you missed the point I was making. But I think it’s more likely that we have a different orientation.

It’s true, Jesus is the poet of poets. But I think you underestimate the “spirit poet” who works at large in the heart of humanity.

We have a difference here. And it is our differences that make things clear.

I think God is actively and fervently at work outside of the church. He is “in,” “with,” and “for” the world. That’s why we can find and hear God out here on the outside.

Listen to the words of Paul to his Athenian audience, “‘For in him we move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’” (Acts 17).

Here Paul quotes two poets. The first, ‘For in him we move and have our being’ is attributed to the Cretan poet Epimenedes (c. 600 BC).

The second, ‘We are his offspring,” is from a Cilician poet named Aratus.

Paul quotes the Greek poet Menander in I Co 15.33: “Bad company corrupts character.”

He quotes Epimenedes again in Titus 1.12 (where he calls him — gasp! — a prophet): “Even one of their own prophets has said, “Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons.”

Paul, at least, seems somewhat aware that poets outside Israel and outside of the Christ following movement may grasp truth and point to it with their words. I think it’s because Paul recognizes that God was in the world long before he was in the Bible.

Why does Paul do this? Why doesn’t Paul quote, as you say, “The Word of God?” Doesn’t he know that only the scriptures offer life?

[Three] reasons, I think. First, to connect with his audience. Second, sometimes outsiders say things that help us move the world forward. Third, sometimes outsiders say things better than insiders.

It seems to me, that you see God in the Bible, but if you’ll look up every now and then, you’ll see that He’s not just a character in a work of literature, but actually active in the world and in the hearts of people, even outsiders.

In my opinion, God can speak to us –and truthfully! — through prophets from the outside, as I have written in this post, to point us to humanity.

Outsiders are a resource to utilize and mobilize for the purpose of Making the Future Human. [By which I mean, making the future what God intended. See, Making the World Human Again].

The human words of human poets, songwriters, filmmakers, etc may parallel the words of The Human, Jesus, who leads us towards a more human future. That being the case, our giving that “voice” from the outside a place in the conversation [enhances] the work and the community of God.

That’s the very heart of Voxtropolis (which means “city of voices”) and the Culture Pub. We want to harness the creative energy of the bohemians in our community to move the world towards a more human future.

It’s true, the outside world often offers distorted visions of reality. But, sometimes the church can offer an equally distorted vision of reality. But Culture Pubs exist to call those of us on the outside to draw pictures of the human future that God is in Christ making.

Thanks for your input.
Again, I truly do not wish to denigrate your or anyone’s church.
I have nothing against your church, Christianity or the Christian religion. As far as religions go, I think Christianity is a [great] one.

I just prefer humanity.

Processing Questions
I hope this conversation creates some dialogue on your side of the cyber-divide. I offer to you these questions from the original post as a processing device.

QUESTION #1] Is God at work in the church today? Yes, but what if he was actually far more at work in the world and calling the church to find him out here?

QUESTION #2] Is God speaking today? Yes, but what if he were speaking to the world through those outside the church?

BONUS QUESTION] How would an affirmative answer to the above questions change how you do what you do?

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